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Pellaken

Feedback (now that they've settled in)

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Now that you guys have settled in, I wanted to give some more feedback on what I'm seeing (well, hearing really)

While I still think you guys are great, I want to give some constructive criticism; so I will be a bit blunter than otherwise so as to be clear - please know this is not an attack, I am trying to make this already great podcast amazing. 

1 - Simon has a bit too much ADHD. in that he interrupts daven too much.

2 - Daven is a bit too stuffy in that he does not respond to Simon's interruptions often.

These two combined seem counter-intuitive, but, you guys have listened to Hello Internet, so I can use that. Brady interrupts Grey not as often as Simon interrupts Daven, but, when he does, Grey goes along with him on the journey to the sidetrack. 

IMHO this is what you guys should aim, the happy middle. Sometimes parts of your current podcast sound a bit like Mr. Daven trying to get little Simon back on track, which isn't always the best.

Again; I'm being more blunt than I otherwise would be to make a point - you guys are doing a great job and I love your podcast, but I also want to provide constructive criticism.

Lastly, 3 - Simon sometimes does not know much about the topic at hand.

For this I simply suggest a quick wikipedia search on the topics at hand before recording begins. Currently, it sounds like Daven is telling Simon a story and he's surprised by parts of it.

HOWEVER, you can play on this. It might actually be better to play it up and keep Simon more in the dark so that the podcast does become Daven telling Simon interesting things as, then, we become Simon, and he becomes a representation of us as the audience. 

 

Anyway I hope that helps! I know 1+2 can be confusing to combine, but I'm confidant you guys can hit that sweet spot, as, it took Grey and Brady quite some time to find that spot on Hello Internet.

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I disagree to all 3 points. I enjoy the more upbeat and unpredictable nature of the podcast. Simon and Daven have a very good and natural rapport with each other and quickly move the conversation forward, which keeps me entertained.  I don't particularly enjoy Hello Internet, which is a bit slower at times, and when one participant simply waits for the other to finish talking before offering input it has a tendency to become a bit monologue-y. 

As to point 3, if Simon knew too much about the subject at hand the storytelling would probably seem a bit unnatural or stiff, as they would inform each other about things both of them already know simply for the sake of the audience.

All in all, my advice to them regarding the their interaction with each other is: Don't think about it. They are clearly good friends and comfortable in each other's company, which creates that sort of intangible 'good vibe' that is hard to create but easy to destroy. If they try to be something other than themselves it could easily make both of them seem non-genuine. Don't try to imitate Hello Internet or any other podcast. Carve out your own niche instead of becoming an inferior copy of someone else's.

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I actually enjoy the dichotomy between the two of them. The way they are doing the podcasts now is excellent in my opinion (short of the fragmented uploading)

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I love the banter back and forth and feel like there is great chemistry. The off topic conversations that popcorn into the podcast are reminiscent of the sorts of talks I have with friends and I love it! I'm sitting here hoping that another one comes out sometime soon. 

One comment I could make is that Daven is sometimes quiet compared to Simon, so I've found myself turning up the volume so I don't have to strain to hear. Even that is my really, really reaching for constructive criticism. 

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Thanks for the feedback!  On the quietness, we have a new audio editor now and I *think* that problem is now fixed. Let me know what you think on that on the latest Final Frontier episode. ?

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Because of all the talk about star trek I think that I'll start to watch it. Damn you both. Just one question, I have Netflix, where should I start?

Edited by otefollert

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Star Trek the Next Generation is the best.  However, fair warning- the first season is utter crap. It's legitimately awful. The second season is hit or miss.  Generally the first not just good, but great episode is considered to be The Measure of a Man which is during the second season, which really for the first time gives you a glimpse of where the show will soon go in terms of quality. (Obviously there are still bad episodes occasionally throughout, but around then is when they really start to hit their stride.) Then just brace yourself for around season five or six and The Inner Light.. Best episode of any show ever. ?  Also in some ways the most un-Star Trek episode of Star Trek.

On that note my personal top five favorites in order for The Next Generations: The Inner Light, First Contact (episode, not the movie), The Best of Both Worlds (two parter), Family (the next episode after The Best of Both Worlds), and The Measure of a Man.

Deep Space Nine is a very different style of show (more character driven than plot driven in some ways and more action), which still suffers a bit from the first couple seasons being not so great (though not as bad as TNG's first season), but it gets reasonably good. 

Personally I was never a huge fan of Voyager just because of how inconstant it was and the fact that it very much seemed like they had two sets of writers who had very different ideas of how the show should go and even the personalities of some of the characters, most notably the captain who one episode would have one personality and the next a completely different one. It was maddening, actually causing the actress to finally give up and just play it off like she had post traumatic stress disorder. ?

The doctor on Voyager, however, is one of the best characters in any Star Trek series. He alone almost makes the show worth watching anyway. He's a gem.   Voyager also features an expansion of the occasional Next Generation character of Lt Barkley. He's a unique character in the Star Trek world and one very beloved by many (and by me as well) despite not being in that many episodes.

There are great episodes in there too, just more rare and the bad episodes are more frequent throughout. I will say the ending of Voyager though was really, really good. However, The Next Generation's final episode beats it, being one of the greatest final episodes of any TV series I've ever seen. They really nailed it on that one.

Enterprise is decent, but unfortunately gets way bogged down by an absurd time travel "cold war" central plot, when what they should have been doing the whole time was focusing on the formation of the Federation as the central plot driver, which they do occasionally touch on, but not nearly enough.  (And really, Hollywood writers should use time travel sparingly because they are really, really bad at it, generally just using it as a way to do whatever they want without regard to anything making any sense or being consistent- in essence, being lazy. Episodes where they took the time to have it all make sense, those time travel episodes are great. But they rarely do that..)

The 4th season of Enterprise though is the best when they kind of abandon the time travel cold war plot line (mostly, as fan feedback was decidedly negative and ratings dropping like crazy) and go with what they should have been focusing on the whole time.  It's unfortunate it didn't make it a few more seasons to develop that more instead of rush it like they did. But the 4th season was pretty good anyway.

Then there's the movies.  Star Trek First Contact is by far the best and the preceding Star Trek Generations I think is second best. Most of the others are more just like high budget episodes of the main show when talking about the most recent batch.  Decent, but nothing special.  But First Contact is a legitimately great movie.

Can't speak much to the original series.  Every time I try to get through it as an adult, I never make it more than a few episodes in before I give up. ? I'd perhaps like the movies with the original cast more if I could get through the original series maybe.  Those movies are decent, but not terribly enamored with them myself.

So my recommendation would be to watch in this order:

Star Trek the Next Generation (just push through the first two seasons, I promise it will be worth it and the second season will give you glimmers of what will come ;-))

Then after that at any point in order:

Star Trek Generations (film) (Very good)

Star Trek First Contact (film) (Great)

Star Trek Insurrection (film) (Decent)

Star Trek Nemesis (film) (Meh, and F you writers for something that happens at the end, given there was no follow up to fix it because it was the last of that line)

And continue on the TV side Deep Space Nine or Enterprise (in either order)

then Voyager (which I think is actually Simon's favorite for some reason, perhaps because it's the one he grew up with, whereas I'm about 6 years older so grew up with The Next Generation ;-))

Then if you can do it, the original series and films. If nothing else, the films are worth a watch. ?

 

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Hey Pellaken, thanks for the feedback - its always welcome when constructive :)

I think with regard to our different roles on the podcast, mine is not really to be the person who is full of facts, but rather being sort of an "interactive audience member". There's lots of comments of the pod sort of sounding like a chat between a couple of friends in a pub - and if we follow that analogy, Daven has come along with a really good story, and I'm listening to it, and asking questions that I think the audience would find interesting (and hopefully occasionally providing some entertaining banter). 

The other option would be to have the model (which perhaps you are suggesting), where both Daven and I are fully briefed on the subject, and we both sort of share the story telling role, together leading the audience through the story. This is a solid format option. Something that shows like Stuff You Should Know (and a lot of shows from that same network, as well as NPR) follow. But personally I find the: "Thanks Dave, that's right he did do that, and then he did this..." back and forth not the ideal format for me. But that's just a personal preference thing, and perhaps the latter is better... I mean SYSK get's approximately 1.12 gigatimes more downloads than us ;). 

On 7/27/2018 at 7:28 PM, Pellaken said:

Lastly, 3 - Simon sometimes does not know much about the topic at hand.

That last one is intentional. By the time we record, I've heard it all before (we have big prep documents). I just make little notes about what I was surprised about, or would like to ask more about. Apparently I'm good at making it sound natural ;). 

And now to chime in on my Star Trek thoughts:

Let me start by where not to go (based on my personal preferences):

- The Original Series: I've never made it through more than a couple of episodes. It's aged badly. 

- Deep Space Nine: I'm a big Trek fan, but never got into this series (I've tried a few times). What I like about Star Trek in general is that its about a utopian future. It's a rare look into a fictional future where everything didn't turn to shit (which I would like to believe is reality... things generally get better and better as the centuries pass). Deep Space Nine feels a lot darker to me somehow, and I didn't vibe with it in quite the same way. 

- Enterprise: To me it felt like a bit of a step backwards... I love all the cool tech that you got in 24th Century (TNG, VOY, DS9) Star Trek. I mean who wants a food slot when you have a replicator? I watched it, and was grateful for it when it was all we had Star Trek wise, but I've never returned to it like I have VOY and TNG. 

Okay then, the good stuff:

- The Next Generation: The reruns of this in the late 90s were my introduction to Star Trek. I loved it. Never saw any of it in order (as often happened back in the days of terrestrial TV), so only found out about the weak first season much later. This is my most returned to Star Trek, and I love it, and its characters. 

- Voyager:  Now, I used to recommend this more than TNG a decade ago when it hadn't aged as much as it has now (especially with the TNG re-release in HD). Now I say start with TNG. VOY is a lot of fun, there are some amazing arcs. And while the characters can be inconsistent, and they all are essentially the same people at the end (excluding Tom Paris and Seven), the relationships between them are enjoyable to see develop. 

- THE MOVIES - If you haven't seen First Contact, its worth watching TNG first (or at least a good amount of it), it will add a great deal of emotional weight to the movie. Further, I have seen all the movies, including the ones with TOS cast, and they are good. The TNG cast movies are better, and they hold up very well indeed. 

 

 

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update from a month later - I do think some of my feedback has been taken into account, along with good feedback provided by those smarter than I, which has made the podcast better!

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